Bible Verses About Corruption

Muslim friends, please, forsake the lie of Ibn-khazem (Hazm) that the Bible has been corrupted. It is a lie and it makes fruitful, intelligent discussion of Christianity vs Islam impossible.

QUOTEMuslim
"How can you say, 'We are wise, And the law of the LORD is with us'? But behold, the lying pen of the scribes Has made it into a lie. Jer 8:8
ENDQUOTE

Please read the context of this verse from Jer 8:4-9. What is being said is that by neglecting the law, the Jews made it of no effect, vain, a lie.

A parallel passage is Matt 15:5-6:

5"But you say, 'Whoever says to his father or mother, "Whatever I have that would help you has been given to God,"

6he is not to honor his father or his mother' And by this you invalidated the word of God for the sake of your tradition.

Also there are plenty of passages in the Bible that warn of those who would corrupt the Word of God--if they could--but they cannot--because it is God's Word--He preserves it. The passages in the Quran that were cited are simply parallel to these passages from the Bible:

For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ. 2 Cor 2:17

but we have renounced the things hidden because of shame, not walking in craftiness or adulterating the word of God, but by the manifestation of truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God. 2 Cor 4:2

I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book. Rev 22:18-19

You shall not add to the word which I am commanding you, nor take away from it, that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you. Deut 4:2

Whatever I command you, you shall be careful to do; you shall not add to nor take away from it. Deut 12:32

Every word of God has proven to be true. He is a shield to those who come to him for protection
Do not add to His words Or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar. Prov 30:5-6

As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness in deceitful scheming; Eph 4:14

More on Ibn-Khazem - Part 3

Corruption of the holy books

Main article: Tahrif

Thorough comparison of the Qur'an with the modern texts of the other holy books shows obvious disagreements: The Torah disagrees in the narratives of Creation, Adam, Ishmael, and many others. The Gospel (the Injil) disagrees on whether Jesus is the Son of God and God incarnate, whether he died, and whether he is the way to salvation of the soul. All three books are written from a human perspective while the Qur'an says they were revealed from God's perspective. Example given by Jesus himself in the book of Luke Chapter 6:1-11

The first known Muslim to recognize this was Ibn Hazm, vizier of Spain and writer against Christians. He concluded that because they were in disagreement, the Bible (containing the Torah, Zabur, and Injil) must be wrong. However, knowing that the Qur'an states "believe in what hath been revealed to thee and what (scripture) was revealed before thee (the Torah and the Injil)." Qur'an Surah 4.162, he concluded, "Therefore, the present text must have been falsified by the Christians after the time of Muhammad."

Some scholars, such as Al Ghazzali (?-1111 CE), disagreed. Ibn Kathir (1301-1372) wrote that the Jews did not alter the Torah, only their interpretation of the Torah:

The phrase "[they] displace words from (their) right places" means that they misinterpret them and understand them in a way that God did not intend, doing this deliberately and inventing lies against God.

In Deuteronomy 31:24-30 Moses himself predicted the corruption of the commandments by his own people after his death labelling them as stiff-necked and rebellious due to the horrible acts they committed during Moses absence to meet God on Mount Sinai. In other places Jesus himself condemned the act of the scribes and the Pharisees and accusing them with hypocricy and moral illnesses (see Luke 12:52, Luke 21:46-47)

However, in the following two hundred years, most scholars came to agree with Ibn Khazem, but they pushed the date of change earlier, previous to the time of Muhammad. Paul and Constantine were often blamed. In more modern times, the belief of such conspiracy has been downplayed and replaced with the idea that corruption came through many small changes by many copyists in the second and third centuries CE for the Injil. The corruption of the Torah and Zabur was moved back to before the Common Era, before the earliest manuscripts known today. Today, the corruption of the holy books is a virtually undisputed belief.

Source: http://en.wikivisual.com/index.php/Islamic_Holy_Books

AGAIN, THERE IS NO CHARGE OF THE BIBLE BEING CORRUPTED IN ISLAM PRIOR TO THE 11TH CENTURY AD AND IBN KHAZEM (HAZM)!!!!

More on Ibn-Khazem - Part 2

QUOTEMuslim
Ibn Khazem is NOT Ibn Hazm
ENDQUOTE

Come now. These are the same person. We both know semitic languages. The transliteration can vary.

Did you read the wikipedia article?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_Hazm

Ibn Hazm (Khazem) of Spain, Born in 994 AD died in 1064 AD, just as I said.

Everything I cited about him is true.

I have recorded my posts in my blog here:

http://egwpisteuw-refutingislam.blogspot.com/

Now I hope we can move forward to intelligent discussion of Islam versus Christianity and drop this absurd canard of the Doctrine of Biblical Corruption which was a lie of Ibn Hazm (Khazem).

More on Ibn-Khazem

QUOTEMuslim
Ibn khazem? nice fictional name... NO SUCH PERSON IN HISTORY..
ENDQUOTE

You are really digging a hole for yourself.

I am holding in my hand a book called:

"A Short History of Islam" by S.F. Mahmud

Here is the link on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/Short-History-Islam-S-Mahmud/dp/0195773845/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1288729622&sr=1-1

Chapter 4 is entitled "Islam in Spain." On page 95, Mahmud says the following:

"The other great name was Ibn Hazm (Ibn-Khazem), who was the greatest writer of them all. He wrote about a hundred books and was equally knowledgeable about history, poetry, traditions, and logic."

Please, stop this insanity. Do the research. What I am telling you is true. Study it out and you will see.

Who is Ibn-Khazem? - Scholarly References

QUOTEMuslim
i dont even have to refute u coz u r merely quoting a stupid website.. stupid argument dont deserve any answers.. :)
ENDQUOTE

Here are some more scholarly references for you:

More than 400 years after Muhammad's death, Ibn-Khazem who died at Cordoba in 1064 AD was the first to allege that the Bible had been corrupted. (P. A. PALMIERI Die Polemik des Islams, German tr. Holzer, Salzburg 1902; E. FRITSCH, Islam und Christentum im Mittelalter, Müller & Seiffert, Breslau 1930; see also. H. HIRSCHFELD, `Muhammadan Criticism of the Bible'. Jewish Quarterly Review 13 (1901) 222-240.) Ibn-Khazem's writings being very influential in later times. (F. M. PAREJA, Islamologia, Orbis Catholicus, Roma 1951, pp. 460-461. )

In his defence of Islam against Christians, Ibn-Khazem saw the contradictions between the Qur'an and the Gospels. One obvious example being the Qur'anic text `They slew him not and they crucified him not' Surah 4:156. `Since the Qur'an must be true,' Ibn- Khazem argued, `it must be the conflicting Gospel texts that are false. But Muhammad tells us to respect the Gospel. Therefore, the present text must have been falsified by the Christians.' His argument was not based on historical facts, but purely on his own reasoning and on his wish to safeguard the truth of the Qur'an. I. DI MATTEO, (`Il "takhrif" od alterazione della Bibbia secondo i musulmani', Bessarione 38 (1922) 64-111; 223-260; `Le preteze contradizzioni della S. Scrittura secondo Ibn-Hazm', Bessarione 39 (1923) 77-127, E. FRITSCH, op. cit., p. 66.)

Nothing could stop him from pursuing this accusation, it seemed the easiest way to attack the opponents. `If we prove the falsehood of their books, they lose the arguments they take from them.' (IBN KHAZEM, Kitab al-fasl fi'l-milah wa'l ahwa'l nikhal, II,6; E. FRITSCH, op cit., p.55) and this led to him eventually making the cynical statement `The Christians lost the revealed Gospel except for a few traces which Allah has left intact as argument against them.' ( IBN KHAZEM, ibid.; E. FRITSCH, op. cit, p. 64)

You and the other Muslims need to confront this issue. The entire Doctrine of Biblical Corruption is nothing more than a conspiracy theory invented by Ibn-Khazem in the 11th century and perpetuated by other disingenuous Muslims who followed his lead.

Who is Ibn-Khazem?

QUOTEMuslim
WHOS IBN KHAZEM?
ENDQUOTE

I'm surprised at you. If you want to engage in scholarly debate you have to do your research. Have you never studied Islamic history?:

"In 1064, Ibn-Khazem, FIRST charged that the Bible had been corrupted and the Bible falsified. This charge was to defend Islam against Christianity because Ibn-Khazem come upon differences and contradiction between the Bible and the Quran. Believing, by faith that the Quran was true, the Bible must then be false. He said, "Since the Quran must be true it must be the conflicting Gospel texts that are false. But Muhammad tells us to respect the Gospel. Therefore, the present text must have been falsified by the Christians after the time of Muhammad." His argument was not based on any evidence or historical facts but only on his personal faith, reasoning and desire to safeguard the Quran. This led him to teach that, "The Christians lost the revealed Gospel except for a few traces which God has left intact as argument against them."

Source: http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-bible-not-corrupted-early-muslims.htm

"Later writers took up the same reasoning, enlarged it and embellished it. The falsification of the Bible was thus asserted by Salikh Ibn-al-Khusain (died 1200), Ahmad at-Qarafi (died 1285), Sa'id Ibn-Khasan (died 1320), Muhammad Ibn-Abi-Talib (died 1327), Ibn-Taimija (died 1328) and many others. From then on it became a fixed ingredient of Muslim apologetics."

Source: http://www.answering-islam.org/Bible/Text/wijngaards.html

See also: http://www.danielpipes.org/comments/74312

THE BIBLE IS NOT AND HAS NEVER BEEN CORRUPTED.

THIS IS A LIE FROM THE PIT OF HELL AND IT SMELLS LIKE SMOKE.

How the Virgin Birth Refutes Islam - Part 4

The Virgin Birth is a real head-scratcher vis-a-vis the Quran. This doctrine carries with it the doctrines of the Deity of Jesus Christ, the Trinity, the doctrine that God begets, and many other doctrines that the Quran rejects.

To accept the doctrine of the Virgin Birth but reject these concomitant doctrines is like saying you have fingers, but no hand, arm, or shoulder. There is a logical intuitive organic connection that cannot be broken.

Come on man, we're really getting to the heart of the matter. We've been reasoning together for months. If you have the courage to drill down on the Virgin Birth and try to understand what it really means, I guarantee I can show you that the Bible explains the doctrine in beautiful detail, while the Quran just hangs it out there--and then refutes it by denying it's purpose.