How the Virgin Birth Refutes Islam - Part 3

QUOTEMuslim
QUESTION :

Did " God the Holy Spirit begat Jesus "

same same like how

Abraham " BEGOT " Isaac
ENDQUOTE

Winnert, the terms used to describe the modus operandi of God the Holy Spirit begetting Jesus are "come upon" (ἐπέρχομαι (eperchomai)) and "overshadow" (ἐπισκιάζω (episkiazo)). These are not terms used of normal copulation between a human male and a human female.

However, the end result is that Jesus was just as much begotten by the Holy Spirit as Isaac was begotten by Abraham (γεννάω (gennao)).

The mechanics of the begetting are not revealed in scripture, only the fact of the begetting is revealed.

The next question that needs to be asked is:

What was the purpose of the Virgin Birth?

In the Quran, there is no purpose.

In the Bible, there is a VERY specific purpose which, of course, further refutes the Quran:

So that God the Son could become unblemished flesh, the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world, and remove the sin barrier, so that we may be made the Righteousness of God in Him:

The next day he (John the Baptist) saw Jesus coming to him and said, "Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world! John 1:29

He (God the Father) made Him (God the Son, Jesus) who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. 2 Cor 5:21

How the Virgin Birth Refutes Islam - Part 2

QUOTEMuslim
however in the Bible.. the suggestion of SEX activity is VERY CLEAR..

1) Holy Ghost OVERSHADOW mary ( jus like a serial rapist trying to overshadow his victim, scaring her )

2) Holy Ghost COME UPON mary ( jus like a serial rapist COMING UPON his victim.. overpowering her so she cant move and fight back.. COMING UPON highly suggest that the Holy Ghost is ON TOP and Mary is BELOW.. sex position? )
ENDQUOTE

You can't do word studies like this. It violates the principles of Biblical Hermeneutics. Here is the proper method of doing an analysis of Luke 1:35:

The angel answered and said to her, "The Holy Spirit will COME UPON you, and the power of the Most High will OVERSHADOW you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God Luke 1:35

"Come upon" is ἐπέρχομαι (eperchomai) in the Greek. It is specifically used of the Holy Spirit here:

8but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has COME UPON you; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth." Acts 1:8

"Overshadow" is ἐπισκιάζω (episkiazo) in the Greek. This word is used of God here :

34While he was saying this, a cloud formed and began to OVERSHADOW them; and they were afraid as they entered the cloud.
35Then a voice came out of the cloud, saying, " This is My Son, My Chosen One; listen to Him!" (Luke 9:34-35)

QUOTEMuslim
NONE of u can defend that begetting is NOT Equal to SEX.. NONE!
ENDQUOTE

Aman, another word study is appropriate here:

20an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, "Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife; for the Child who HAS BEEN BEGOTTEN in her is of the Holy Spirit. Matt 1:20

HAS BEEN BEGOTTEN here is from γεννάω (gennao) which is the exact same word used throughout the preceding genealogy of Matt 1:1-16. For example:

2Abraham BEGAT Isaac, Isaac BEGAT Jacob, and Jacob BEGAT Judah and his brothers.

Thus the Holy Spirit begat Jesus in the same way that Abraham begat Isaac, Isaac begat Jacob, etc..

Taken together, the coming upon and overshadowing are simply terms used when God comes in direct contact with man. Begetting is a term used for fathering a child. Thus:

The Holy Spirit is God

Jesus is God

God is thus a trinity made up of the Father, Son (Jesus), and the Holy Spirit

God the Holy Spirit begat Jesus.

Thus I maintain that to accept the Virgin Birth, the Trinity, Deity of Jesus Christ, and the Doctrine that God begets must also be accepted. Thus the Quran is broken, and Islam falls.

How the Virgin Birth Refutes Islam

QUOTEMuslim
i still dont understand HOW accepting the virgin birth of Prophet Jesus Pbuh can refute islamic standpoint which is against Trinity/Deity of Jesus/God begets..
ENDQUOTE

A. Jesus was a male child and thus had both an X and a Y chromosome

B. Mary, being a female, can only supply an X chromosome.

C. So where did the Y chromosome come from?

D. It was supplied by the Holy Spirit:

The angel answered and said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God. Luke 1:35

The Child, Jesus, is called, the "Holy" Child because He was begotten by the Holy Spirit, the power of the Most High, and Jesus is called the Son of God because the Holy Spirit is God. Thus John 1:18:

No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.

Thus God begets, Jesus is God, and Jesus as God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are both members of the Trinity, along with the Father.

This refutes these three Surahs:

1. Say: Praise be to Allah, who begets no son Surah 17:111

2. Say not: "Three (trinity)!" Cease! Surah 4:171

3. They do blaspheme who say: "Allah is Christ the son of Mary" Surah 5:72

God Begets - Part 3

QUOTEMulsim
funny... the jews dont believe God begets a Son

jews and the muslims are together on the same page on this one! we both AGREE THAT GOD CANNOT BEGET A SON!
ENDQUOTE

What kind of argument is this?

What would you say to me if I said that God begets a son because "All Christians believe it and agree on it" ?

Beliefs and opinions are IRRELEVANT. The truth of God's word is all that matters and I showed you verse after verse that proves that God begets.

Why not just accept it? To argue with the clear evidence from scripture is illogical.

God Begets - Part 2

QUOTEMuslim
How can Jesus be the (begotten) son of God while Mary was a virgin? Begotten means "Born of the act of sexual intercourse" which means that either God had sex with Mary (God forbid) or that Mary was not a virgin
ENDQUOTE

All you have to do is read the Gospel in Luke 1:

26Now in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city in Galilee called Nazareth,

27to a virgin engaged to a man whose name was Joseph, of the descendants of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.

30The angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary; for you have found favor with God.

31"And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall name Him Jesus.

34Mary said to the angel, "How can this be, since I am a virgin?"

35The angel answered and said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God.

God Begets

Muslims, why are you trying to contradict the clear witness of the scripture. The verses I quoted from the New Testament (previous post) clearly show that God begets. Here is one from the Old Testament:

I will surely tell of the decree of the LORD:
He said to Me, 'You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You. Pslam 2:7

The Hebrew word begotten here is יָלַד (yalad) which means to bring forth a child. The Hebrew word for child יֶלֶד (yeled) is from the same root.

Why not just admit that Surah 112:1-4 is a lie and obey the command of Jesus:

repent and believe in the gospel Mar 1:15

Another Example of Ridiculous Muslim Bible Interpretation

QUOTEMuslim
1 cor 15:6 Then he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have fallen asleep

1 cor 15:8 Last of all, as though to one born at the wrong time, he appeared to me also.

did you notice "last of all"? if it is your so called spiritual birth, last of all has no significance. he is claiming he is the last witness of resurrection and its because he was born at the wrong time..... many years later.
ENDQUOTE

Again you prove my point that you cannot understand the scripture because you do not have the teaching ministry of the Holy Spirit to teach you all things because you have not been born again.

In 1 Corinthians 15 Paul is stating that:

The last post-resurrection appearance of Jesus was to Paul. This occurred shortly after (within one year) of the other post-resurrection appearances mentioned in verses 5-7.

The fact that some of the 500 in verse 6 had died is due to the fact that 1 Corinthians was written about 25 years (59 AD) after the appearance of Jesus to Paul.

Why don't you stop the impossible task of trying to break the scripture because Jesus said:

the Scripture cannot be broken John 10:35

and obey the command of Jesus:

'You must be born again John 3:7

Surah 112:1-4 is a Lie

Say, He is Allah the one.
The absolute, eternal.
He begets not nor is he begotten.
And there is none like unto him.
(Surah 112:1-4)

This is a lie from the pit of hell and it smells like smoke. God does beget:

And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth. John 1:14

No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him. John 1:18

For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. John 3:16

He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. John 3:18

By this the love of God was manifested in us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world so that we might live through Him. 1 John 4:9

Is the Allah of the Quran = The Satan of the Bible?

QUOTEEgwpisteuw
1. I believe that the Allah of the Quran is the Satan of the Bible, and thus not God.
ENDQUOTE

QUOTEMuslim
1) Proof that Allah= Satan

any proofs?
ENDQUOTE

Here you go:

1. Surah 3:54 says:

Allah is the best of SCHEMERS

Schemers is  "Khayrul-Makereen" in the Arabic which means:

to scheme
to deceive, delude, cheat, double cross
cunning, craftiness, slyness
wiliness, double dealing, deception, deceit, artifice, guile

This clearly corresponds to the Satan of the Bible:

so that no advantage would be taken of us by Satan, for we are not ignorant of his SCHEMES 2 Cor 2:11

And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who DECEIVES the whole world; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him. Rev 12:9

Now the serpent was more CRAFTY than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said to the woman, "Indeed, has God said, 'You shall not eat from any tree of the garden '?" Gen 3:1

Then the LORD God said to the woman, "What is this you have done?" And the woman said, "The serpent DECEIVED me, and I ate." Gen 3:!3

But I am afraid that, as the serpent DECEIVED Eve by his CRAFTINESS, your minds will be led astray from the simplicity and purity of devotion to Christ. 2 Cor 11:3

No wonder, for even Satan DISGUISES himself as an angel of light. 2 Cor 11:4

But Peter said, "Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to LIE to the Holy Spirit and to keep back some of the price of the land? Acts 5:3

[Even him], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and LYING wonders, 2 Thess 2:9

A clear match. Satan just couldn't resist revealing himself in the Quran in Surah 3:54.

What is a Muslim?

Since Sophia could not answer my simple question:

What is a Christian?

I will answer the following question to show the type of answer I am looking for:

What is a Muslim?

Answer: A Muslim accepts the Shahada as a declaration of faith:

There is no god but Allah, and Muhammad is the messenger of Allah

I do not and never have accepted this for two reasons:

1. I believe that the Allah of the Quran is the Satan of the Bible, and thus not God.
2. I believe that Muhammad is a false prophet duped by Satan, pretending to be Gabriel, who gave to Muhammad a revelation of violence and lies, the Quran.

Thus I come from the position of one who is called by God to preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ to Muslims and all other unbelievers, most of whom are good and decent people, who have been blinded Satan. I am willing to engage them, and use my Spiritual Gift to show them the ONLY true way to God:

Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.  John 14:6

Professing Christendom vs. Biblical Christianity

QUOTEfrom Muslim
You have pre-judged Sophia as anti-christianity.

So ! whatever truth Sophia writes about christianity,

your " prejudiced & imprisoned " mind, body and soul will ALWAYS receive same as Anti-Christianity !
ENDQUOTE 

(Note: Sophia is a confused ex-Roman Catholic)

I have indeed formed an opinion of Sophia based on what she has posted:

She is confusing Professing Christendom with Biblical Christianity and there is a HUGE difference between the two--this is the difference between the wheat and the tares in the parable I quoted (Matt 13:24-30).

I am giving her a chance to clarify her position--and I hope she will take advantage of my offer to dialog with her.

Additionally, your definition of the "LAY Christian" is what I call a "Chreaster" Someone who attends church on Christmas and Easter and indeed "knows very, very, little about bible & christianity" as you say. This person is a part of Professing Christendom but is likely not a Biblical Christian.

A Biblical Christian is someone who has personally received Jesus Christ as Savior:

But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name John 1:12

On Mark 16:9-20

QUOTE from a Muslim
"And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature." Mark 16:15"

hey buddy... i hate to tell u this but this verse IS NOWHERE TO BE FOUND IN CODEX SINAITICUS!

http://www.codex-sinaiticus.net/en/

ENDQUOTE

You are looking at Biblical manuscripts--very impressive. That is an excellent site for Sinaiticus. The answer to your question is that Mark 16:9-20 is not found in Codex Sinaiticus or in several other manuscripts:

"The last twelve verses of the commonly received text of Mark are absent from the two oldest Greek manuscripts (א and B), from the Old Latin codex Bobiensis (it k), the Sinaitic Syriac manuscript, about one hundred Armenian manuscripts, and the two oldest Georgian manuscripts (written A.D. 897 and A.D. 913)"

Bruce Metzger, A Textual Commentary on the Greek New Testament (Stuttgart, 1971)

Therefore, doctrine cannot be built on these verses alone.

However, the doctrine contained in Mark 16:15 is repeated in the following verses which are in all manuscripts:

Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, Matt 28:19

if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul,
have become a servant. Col 1:23

The rule in textual criticism is that if a verse is not conatined in all manuscripts (and VERY few verses are not) you cannot build doctrine on that verse unless that doctrine it is supported by other verses.

Hyper-literal Muslim Bible Interpretation

Here is an example of hyper-literal Muslim Bible Interpretation. Someone asked me this question and my response follows:

QUOTE
Who was Jesus wife and how many children Jesus had ?

Isaiah 53 : 10

".....HE WILL SEE HIS OFFSPRING and PROLONG HIS DAYS. "
ENDQUOTE

Are you serious? It means spiritual offspring not physical:

But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name John 1:12

Aren't you embarrased by the absurd Muslim wooden ultra-hyper-literal interpretation of the Bible?

Muslims who interpret the Bible like this are idiot savants--without the savant part.

Muslims Must Become Blind

39And Jesus said, "For judgment I came into this world, so that those who do not see may see, and that those who see may become blind."

40Those of the Pharisees who were with Him heard these things and said to Him, "We are not blind too, are we?"

41Jesus said to them, "If you were blind, you would have no sin; but since you say, 'We see,' your sin remains. John 9:39-41

What Jesus is saying here is that the irreligious so-called "sinners" i.e., prostitutes, tax-gatherers, and other undesirables of society were actually much closer to salvation than the "religious" Scribes, Pharisees, and Sadducees.

The irreligious are spiritually blind--and they know it. Thus when they hear the Gospel of Jesus Christ they can accept it with joy as something they know is missing in their life.

The religious think that they are not blind, they have their false religion--and thus they think they see. Thus they must first be shown that their false religion is a lie--they must become blind--then they can receive the true Gospel of Jesus Christ and receive sight.

Therefore, I pray for Muslims, that they will become blind.  

The Light of Islam is Darkness

The Light of Islam is Darkness

I gave this response to a Muslim who told me she hoped I would see the light of Islam. I see that light--and it is darkness:

If then the light that is in you is darkness, how great is the darkness! Matt 6:23

Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter. Isaiah 5:20

The specific darkness of Islam is directly attributable to Satan, the one who disguises his darkness as light:

No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. 2 Cor 11:14

How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! [how] art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! Isaiah 14:12

Lucifer in Isaiah 14:12 is the Hebrew  הֵילֵל (heylel) which means the shining one, the bright star, the morning star, the light bearer. In Latin it is Lucifer.

Lucifer or Satan is the author of Islam, pretending to be Gabriel he gave a hideous revelation of lies to Muhammad--this is called the Quran.

This is the "light" of Islam--utterly opaque blackness and darkness.

 

The Doctrine of the Virgin Birth: A Proof That the Quran is Illogical

By accepting the Doctrine of the Virgin Birth, the Quran unwittingly refutes itself. Here is the proof:

1. She (Mary) said: "O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man hath touched me?" He said: "Even so: Allah createth what He willeth: When He hath decreed a plan, He but saith to it, 'Be,' and it is! Surah 3:47

2. Say: Praise be to Allah, who begets no son Surah 17:111

3. Say not: "Three (trinity)!" Cease! Surah 4:171

4. They do blaspheme who say: "Allah is Christ the son of Mary" Surah 5:72

5. Mary said to the angel, "How can this be, since I am a virgin?" The angel answered and said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God. Luke 1:34-35

6. He has sent down upon you, [O Muhammad], the Book in truth, confirming what was before it. And He revealed the Torah and the Gospel. Surah 3:3

By accepting the Doctrine of the Virgin Birth the Quran is accepting:

1. The Trinity because in Luke 1: 34-35 the Holy Spirit is the father of the humanity of Jesus Christ and is described as the power of the Most High and thus is God.

2. The Deity of Jesus Christ because the Holy Spirit who is God is His Father

3. The Fact that God does indeed beget because Jesus Christ was begotten by God.

Thus Surah 3:47 combined with 3:3 refutes 17:111, 4:171, and 5:72.

Why the Bible cannot be Corrupted - Psalm 138:2

Muslims try to argue that the Bible has become corrupted. However, this is impossible.

The scripture says:

thou hast magnified thy Word above all thy Name. Pslam 138:2

The Hebrew word for name is  שֵׁם (shem). This word has a very special meaning in the Hebrew. It is "THE NAME", "the celebrated name of God"," A designation for God", It represents God's renown, His Glory, His reputation, His fame. It is a title for God. The Jews use it in place of the sacred tetragrammaton יְהֹוָה (Yahweh).

Thus It represents God Himself and YET GOD SAYS HIS WORD IS ABOVE HIS NAME!

"Above all thy name - Above all else that thou hast done; above all the other manifestations of thyself to me or to the world. The word name here would refer properly to all that God had done to make himself known - since it is by the name that we designate or distinguish anyone; and, thus understood, the meaning would be, that the word of God - the revelation which he has made of himself and of his gracious purposes to mankind - is superior in clearness, and in importance, to all the other manifestations which he has made of himself; all that can be known of him in his works." Barnes Notes on Psalm 138:2

THUS IF GOD ALLOWED HIS WORD TO BECOME CORRUPTED, HE ALLOWED HIMSELF TO BECOME CORRUPTED AND IS NOT GOD!

Extra-Biblical witnesses of the Crucifixion, Death, and Resurrection of Jesus Christ

The Quran contains the following lie:

That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:- Quran Surah 4:157 7th century AD

This is refuted not only by the Bible, but also by the following extra-Biblical witnesses:

1. Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus... Cornelius Tacitus (55-120 AD), "the greatest historian" of ancient Rome

2. At this time there was a wise man who was called Jesus. And his conduct was good and he was known to be virtuous. And many people from among the Jews and other nations became his disciples. Pilate condemned him to be crucified and to die. And those who had become his disciples did not abandon his discipleship. They reported that he had appeared to them three days after his crucifixion and that he was alive... Flavius Josephus (37-97 AD), court historian for Emperor Vespasian

3. The Christians, you know, worship a man to this day--the distinguished personage who introduced their novel rites, and was crucified on that account. ... You see, these misguided creatures start with the general conviction that they are immortal for all time, which explains the contempt of death and voluntary self-devotion which are so common among them; and then it was impressed on them by their original lawgiver that they are all brothers, from the moment that they are converted, and deny the gods of Greece, and worship the crucified sage, and live after his laws Lucian - 2nd century Greek Satirist

4. What advantage did the Athenians gain from putting Socrates to death? Famine and plague came upon them as a judgment for their crime. What advantage did the men of Samos gain from burying Pythagoras? In a moment their land was covered with sand. What advantage did the Jews gain from executing their wise king? It was just after that that their kingdom was abolished. God justly avenged these three wise men: the Athenians died of hunger; the Samians were overwhelmed by the sea; the Jews, ruined and driven from their land, live in complete dispersion. Mara Bar-Serapion, of Syria, circa 70 AD

Source: http://www.westarkchurchofchrist.org/library/extrabiblical.htm

Ibn-Khazem and the Lie that the Bible is Corrupted

Here is a short 5 point refuation of the lie that the Bible is corrrupted:

1. The Quran does not EVER mention the Bible being corrupted

2. The early Muslims NEVER made such a charge

3. Ibn-Khazem came along in the 11th century--400 YEARS AFTER MUHAMMAD--and pulled this charge OUT OF THIN AIR, because he realized that the Quran did not confirm the Bible as it says it does (e.g., Surah 3:3 and many other verses). Ibn-Khazem specifically was perplexed that Surah 4:157 disagreed with the clear Gospel accounts that Jesus was indeed crucified and killed and yet Surah 3:3 specifically asserts that the Quran confirms the Gospel.

4. Later Muslims picked up this absurd charge because they felt it was the only way to attempt to defend Islam. It thus became a fixed part of Muslim Apologetics 

5. However, no Muslim theologian ever stopped to think through the untenable implications of the Doctrine of Biblical Corruption: If God's Word became corrupted, then God became corrupted and ceased to be God. Psalm 138:2.